Choosing Your Role Models
In this thoughtful episode of The Coach Is In, Irene and Cat explore how we form our ideas of role models—what shapes them, how they evolve, and why it’s essential to remain mindful of who and what we admire. Through personal stories, parenting insights, and cultural commentary, they examine how values, struggle, and visibility intersect to influence both adults and the next generation.
⏱️ Content Highlights & Timestamps
00:00 – Welcome & Why This Conversation Matters
– Irene and Cat reconnect and frame the discussion around the importance of role models in leadership and parenting.
03:12 – Unintentional Role Models: Who Shapes Us Before We Know It
– Irene shares stories from her upbringing in a rural town and how books and biographies shaped her worldview.
– Notable mention: Sirin Phathanothai as a formative influence.
08:45 – The Power of Biographies & Exposure
– Cat reflects on how reading about ballerinas influenced her discipline and appreciation for hard work.
– Discussion on how interests shape identity, even when they differ.
12:30 – Struggle vs. Joy in Identity Formation
– Irene reflects on how Southeast Asian narratives often center on struggle and the shift toward valuing joy and lightness.
– Cat opens up about questioning if her lack of dramatic hardship invalidates her story.
18:01 – Money & Morals: A Complex Relationship
– Irene discusses Warren Buffett and how reading The Snowball helped her see that wealth and values don’t have to be at odds.
– Cat shares concerns about media narratives that portray wealth as inherently corrupting.
24:50 – Visibility Bias: Why Do We See Certain Leaders?
– A discussion on Musk, Trump, and how attention is given to controversial figures.
– The absence of quieter, values-driven leaders in the spotlight.
29:35 – Power, Integrity & Role Models in Parenting
– Cat highlights the importance of helping kids think critically about public figures.
– Strategies for media literacy and value alignment.
34:30 – Speaking Out vs. Staying Silent: What’s the Right Move?
– Irene challenges the idea that silence always equals complicity.
– Nuanced take on how and when to speak out, especially around power and vulnerability.
41:10 – Admiration Without Pedestals: Holding Leaders Accountable
– A powerful distinction between the person and the position they hold.
– Leaders can be flawed humans—and still be worth learning from, so long as we stay critical and connected.
📌 Calls to Action & Takeaways
If this episode resonated with you, here are a few things to reflect on or try:
Think about your current role models. Do they align with your values?
Talk to your kids about the media they consume—who they admire and why.
Share a biography that shaped you with someone younger (or ask them to share one with you).
When admiring a public figure, ask: "Do I admire their values—or just their visibility?"
Practice media literacy at home: Question what’s shown and what’s not.
Help us grow the conversation:
👍 Follow the show
📝 Leave a review
📤 Share this episode with a parent or leader who’d appreciate a thoughtful take on modern role models
🌐 Resources & Mentions
The Dragon's Pearl: https://amzn.to/3G6SPEp
The Snowball: Warren Buffet https://amzn.to/4nrNzMy
Rethinking Narcissism: https://amzn.to/4loaMgq
Perry Mason: https://amzn.to/4ljSFch
🤝 Connect With Us
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Learn more or get in touch: www.thecoachisinpodcast.com
🎧 The Coach Is In – Honest conversations, practical tools, and fresh perspectives for parent leaders. Because balance might be a myth—but intention is everything.
Transcript
Welcome to The Coach Is In the podcast for parent leaders who are
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:juggling work, family, and life, and
wondering if there's actually a way
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:to do it all without falling apart.
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:I'm Irene, a leadership coach on the
mission to bridge generational gaps and
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:bring fresh perspectives to the challenges
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:parent leaders face.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: And I'm Cat, a
coach, lawyer, and mom who's been there
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:navigating the tightrope of leadership
at home and work and figuring out
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:what's actually worth the energy.
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:If you're skeptical that balance,
calm or boundaries are even possible.
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:We get it.
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:We are not here for quick
fixes or empty advice.
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:We're here to have honest conversations.
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:We'll share practical tools and maybe even
help you see things differently because
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:The Coach Is In and this space is for you.
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:Irene, I'm so happy to be here with
you and chatting and reconnecting.
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:Uh, like I feel like all
of our conversations.
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:End up making me feel
calmer and a little smarter.
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:So hopefully we're leaving the listeners
with some semblance of that as well.
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:Irene Uy: Likewise.
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:Um, I always appreciate this space
and bringing some positivity into the
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:conversations, on my day-to-day, but
also like now that we're sharing this
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:with a larger audience, I feel, I hope
that, they share this experience with us.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:So what's coming up for you today
as something that, you know,
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:over the past couple of weeks has
surfaced as meaningful and, you
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:know, something you wanna dig into?
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:Irene Uy: I.
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:I was actually
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:reflecting on, a previous episode that we,
touched on, which is like, your episode on
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:turning, everyday news into life Lessons.
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:Hmm.
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:Touched on, uh, a lot of like,
the world leaders of today.
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:And so I think for today I wanted
to talk about role models, perhaps,
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:how we identify who our role models
are, and how that affects us.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: It's fun, you know,
as you're talking about role models, I,
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:I, I would love to dive into kind of.
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:How you think you've identified
role models and if that's, you
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:know, if who is your role model
has evolved over time, et cetera.
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:But I, I think as a mom, this
conversation is so timely,
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:especially with teens or tweens.
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:'cause it, it's interesting to see
who sparks their imagination and who
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:my daughters and their friends talk
about and who, you know, as, as.
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:Even if they won't call them role
models, you can tell that they have
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:an influence on, how they think and
their, maybe what music they listen
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:to or the clothes they dress, and
it, it becomes something consciously
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:or not that they aspire towards.
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:So yeah, it's definitely, a topic
that I'm excited to discuss.
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:Irene Uy: Yes.
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:I love that you mentioned that point
because, I actually go back to the times
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:when I was like, A younger version of
myself at the critical developmental
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:stages, and I know you have, daughters
who are, you know, teenagers.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:and I, I go back to that time
and I feel like, oh, you know,
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:my role models are definitely, I.
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:People who have a lot of influence
over me, but these are not role
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:models that I, consciously choose.
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:It's just that, you know, if I,
if I come across them, then I
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:would naturally be drawn to them.
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:It's not even like I have
a choice in it, right?
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:And so I grew up in a very small
town, so small that, Google Maps
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:wouldn't even show the street names,
and the population is so small.
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:So we lived by the sea, we
could see the stars every night.
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:That kind, how, that's how rural it was.
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:Right?
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:So how does a girl like that end up
moving to the United States, in New York?
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:Right.
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:It's a huge shift.
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:And for me, I, I was fortunate enough,
To have, someone in my corner to who
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:encouraged me to really read books
because, for a small town girl like
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:me, um, what is my exposure, right?
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:Like it's very limited.
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:But with books, it really expanded.
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:My worldview, even if it's not.
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:so what I like reading
biographies, um mm-hmm.
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:I liked reading.
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:There were fiction.
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:Like I, I loved, um, Perry
Mason, by Erle Stanley Gardner.
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:at one point I wanted to be a
lawyer because of how I, I was
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:really loved, those series.
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:and so I, yeah, those were what shaped
my, Worldview, and I think I want to
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:call out a few of the biographies that
I read, which is number one is, Sirin
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:Pathonathai I read about her when I
was a teenager, maybe 14, I forget.
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:But, it was, it left such an imprint in
me because I read a couple of, biographies
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:of strong Asian female, mm-hmm.
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:Actual people that
influenced my personality.
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:I think, Syria is, was, diplomat from.
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:She was a daughter of a Thai politician
who was sent to, China at the time
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:when, they're not supposed to be,
legal channels between the countries.
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:Um, and so, and she moved to China at
a very tender age, maybe five or six.
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:and so, I mean, if you, if you
follow that story or if, if you're
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:inclined to read her biography, I
would encourage, young women to do so.
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:she's still alive by the way.
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:I saw, I saw her at an interview last.
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:From December of last year, so Wow.
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:She's still very much in the picture.
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:I kind of wanna get back into,
you know, what she's up to.
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:but yeah, that's what I wanted to share.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Oh, wow.
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:I, we should dig up the book
and leave it in the show notes.
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:'cause I feel like that I, I have
not heard of this person and I would
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:love to dig into it and read more.
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:Um, I, I read a fair number
of, I mean, not as many.
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:Biographies when I was in my teens,
but the ones I can recall reading were
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:actually, I was really into dance and
I took, uh, I was a ballet dancer until
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:I was about 16, and then I started
branching out into other types of dance
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:and like took dance classes, flamenco and
African dance and, you know, in college.
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:But I remember.
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:Really enjoying kind of these
firsthand experiences of different
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:principle ballerinas, et cetera.
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:Um, and learning from that, the discipline
that it takes to accomplish your big goal.
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:So even though I never went on to become
a ballet dancer and I stopped studying
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:ballet at a certain point in time, that
I think was my takeaway was kind of just.
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:Wow.
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:Like there's, in order to accomplish
certain ends, there's a degree of,
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:persistence and dedication that
you have to, to have, have to have.
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:And I would imagine that's
also like similarly, I.
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:In reading the biographies that
you read, you, you were taking away
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:these lessons that led you to break
them mold and do something that no
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:one you do had ever done and come
to the States and live in New York.
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:You know, that's, that's pretty impactful.
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:Irene Uy: Yeah.
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:it's, you know, it's interesting
that you, have diff a very
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:different, interest, than, than mine.
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:But I, I wanna call out that both of
these interests, may look very different,
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:but, they are, very true to who we are.
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:And so, I guess coming from Asia, I
had a Singapore neighbor who, critiqued
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:that, why is it that whenever we consume.
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:Asian content or Southeast
Asian content, it always has
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:to center around our struggles.
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:Why can't it, it just be, our joys, right?
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:And I perhaps this is the contrast, like
me, coming from Southeast Asia and you
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:growing up in the United States, like we
just have very different perspectives,
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:but both are very equally valid.
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:'cause I am just now also getting to this
point where I'm like, yeah, why can't I
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:just, um, do things for the joy of it?
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:Like I.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Hmm.
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:this is a, a hot button topic for me,
but the idea of the role of struggle in
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:the role of how much we think we deserve
something like I, I remember thinking
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:like my stories, how much do they really
matter if I haven't had a horrible life.
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:Like there's the, I know it seems like
an, it's not something that plagues me.
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:This, I don't stay up at
night thinking about this.
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:But I remember, when I was making art
more frequently or when I, you know.
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:had to write memoir experiences for
creative writing classes and thinking
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:about like, I, uh, yeah, I, I.
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:Maybe I've, I just am someone
that tends to also downplay
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:my struggles on some level.
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:But I remember thinking like, well,
you know, I, I haven't been homeless,
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:I haven't been physically abused.
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:Like, what do I talk about?
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:Because the idea that struggles defined
the story was kind of something that I
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:picked up somewhere and had a hard time
letting go of or kind of working through,
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:Yeah, I, I still at moments have, have,
have questions about that and, but I,
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:I'm interested to explore and maybe
unpack with you and, and brainstorm,
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:like maybe how does that fit into,
our definition of role models and who
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:people might pick as a role model.
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:Because maybe there's something
about, oh, if this person overcame
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:these struggles and these odds and
accomplished something admirable that
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:we find, inspiring, does that compel
us to feel like, oh, I, I maybe I.
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:Have less, fewer struggles, so I, I can
also do this, or, you know, or even if you
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:have the same struggles, you can feel like
they did it so I can do it too, you know?
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:Did that ever, does that
ever come up for you?
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:And Yeah.
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:Do you have those kind of
brainstorm moments as well?
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:Irene Uy: Yeah.
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:And I
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:actually love that, um, the way
that you're bringing this up
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:because, I feel like, no one is,
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:Devoid of struggles, right?
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:Let's just put it out there like
whether you have a good life, whether
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:you're rich or you're poor, or you're
popular, or you, you're a nobody.
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:We all have struggles and I find
myself drawn to leaders who have had
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:struggles but remain kind and fair
and, just has a really high integrity.
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:I think I might call
out, uh, Warren Buffet.
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:hmm.
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:When I, when I read, his, biography,
the Snowball by Alice Schroeder,
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:I was like, wow, this is someone
that I can really look up to.
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:'cause I, I think leading up to that
point, before I read his biography, before
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:I turned 20, all I see are people who
were making money left and right, but
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:I didn't quite align with their values.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:So I, the dangerous message that I
was receiving there is that, hey.
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:Rich people are kind of jerks.
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:And I don't think that's the
kind of lesson that, um, that
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:I needed to learn because.
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:making money is good, right?
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:Like, being really good
at making money is good.
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:So I came across Warren Buffet.
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:It really, I mean, and, and, and I'm
glad that I did because we need to
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:see or hear more leaders about him.
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:oftentimes the leaders that
we hear about in media are.
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:intense, they're very effective,
but I, they don't necessarily
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:align with my values.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And so, Warren Buffet is a gem.
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:Like, you don't really see much
of him, and I wish we could.
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:I, I'm sure there are a lot of leaders
that don't get talked about enough.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Because actually in the, Background.
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:but I can talk about the bosses
that I, I liked working with, and
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:I, I have so much respect for them.
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:I wish there were more of
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:them.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Mm mm This it is
funny, like you said, uh, like as you
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:were talking about Warren Buffet and
how maybe he's not spoken about very
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:often, and there probably are many
of these quieter leaders who embody
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:values, integrity, morals, good decision
making, philanthropy, et cetera.
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:But.
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:Aren't as newsworthy.
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:And I'm contrasting that with, you
know, the last couple of days, Elon
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:Musk and President Trump's kind of
very, very public implosion of their
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:relationship and the insults that
they were throwing back and forth at
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:each other and like dirt and whatever.
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:it's, it's a, it's a huge contrast.
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:Like the, that kind of person is very much
in the public eye and they're both very
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:wealthy, Musk and Trump, but they aren't.
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:Behaving in ways that I would
want my kids, and I certainly
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:don't wanna follow either.
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:Like it's It's tough when, when there's
a lot out there that shines a light
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:on things that aren't so, respectable
and how do you, you know, trying to
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:remember that there, this isn't everyone.
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:And I, I, I totally get what you
said about, rich people are jerks
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:and how that's, uh, this, um,
narrative has been re like emphasized
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:in the past couple of weeks with.
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:Everything that's going on with
this idea of like wealthy people and
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:being reckless with their decisions
and playing with people's lives.
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:I don't know.
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:It's, it's just wild to how, like what
you were saying, it really resonates
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:and is very topical and of the moment
given what's, what's happening.
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:And I don't want, I don't wanna
embrace that mentality of rich
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:people are bad and I don't want my
kids to, but I also don't want them
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:to think like, money is everything.
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:Money is what makes you great.
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:Money is what makes you,
have power and influence.
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:I mean, I.
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:That's not the only thing that
should, you know what I mean?
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:Like there's, it's complicated.
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:but yeah, oof.
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:The stories that are, that we start to
internalize and the lessons we pick up
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:from the people that we, that are out
there and that we see and that our media
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:holds up and puts on a pedestal are,
they're kind of unavoidable and, um.
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:It's good when we can identify that,
oh, this is what I'm starting to glean
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:from this and it's not necessarily true
and it's not necessarily what I want to
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:embrace or what I want my kids to espouse.
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:Irene Uy: Um, funny
you, you bring these up.
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:'cause like I I, I certainly
don't pass judgment on, on
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:what, what I'm seeing right now.
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:In fact, I'm a happy spectator,
because we would not have seen
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:this otherwise, and I'm glad that.
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:They're being transparent.
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:because if there's one thing that I can
pick up from recent events is that, how
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:much money you make or are capable of
making, does not, it's a very different,
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:it's a totally different thing from,
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:Your character.
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:Right.
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:It does not say anything
about your character.
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:Like those are two different mm-hmm.
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:Things.
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:Um, yeah, I have a lot of Does
that make you a better person?
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Uh, I, I have a lot of
respect, so I have even.
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:A lot more respect for people who do
make the money and who, have, who are in
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:positions of power, but still choose to
do good and, and not just for, the camera.
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:Right.
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:Um, 'cause you could tell the
difference between someone who's
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:just doing it for the camera.
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:Or for validation and people
who really mean what they say.
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:'cause they make tough decisions
and, do things that may not
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:necessarily be in their favor.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:but it's just the right thing
to do for, for the public Good.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, now there's no, I'm not, I'm
not also holding everyone to, um.
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:to that moral standard.
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:Like you can do whatever you want
with your money, but it's, it's
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:nice when you see someone who cares,
beyond just themselves, right?
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:So I'm just naturally drawn to that.
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:Doesn't mean that you're, you're,
less than if you, if you don't, meet
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:those standards, but I just personally
am drawn to people who think about
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:things more than their self-interests.
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And, and I think there's, I like you.
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:Very much appreciate those people that
choose to, have a broader, positive
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:impact beyond their own, you know, maybe
their families or their own pocketbooks.
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:Right.
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:you know, and there's some people
that really lean into that,
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:like Mackenzie Scott, ex-wife
of Jeff Bezos is famous for.
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:Getting all this money in the divorce and
really like leaning into so hard, giving
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:like the, the, uh, radical philanthropy.
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:And, and I love that because
what truly, if you have $1.5
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:billion, you don't need that to live.
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:You don't need that to live extravagantly.
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:You could, you could, you know what
I mean, give so much of that away.
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:And that's really what
she has started to do.
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:So there's that.
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:And then there's also this spectrum
of like, you know, there's people
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:that maybe are in the middle and then
you have people that are really just
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:show up as very selfish and, and that
plays out and informs who they are
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:and their decision making, et cetera.
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:Or, or from what I can tell, I don't
know everything, obviously we don't
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:have insight into their tax returns,
but, um, there's, this is making
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:me think of a show I just watched.
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:It was a movie called Mountain Head.
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:It's by the guy that Jesse Armstrong,
who also did succession, the series,
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:which all send, you know, succession
if the you haven't watched it is,
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:It's kind of like, have you watched it?
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:Irene Uy: Yeah, I didn't finish.
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:It was too long.
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:But yeah, I hear like that's very
accurate and you know, coming from a
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:family business background as well.
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:Like, I'm sorry, not to
interrupt you, but Yeah, no,
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:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: yeah, yeah.
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:It's, it's riveting watching and
it's, you know, about loosely, I think
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:inspired by the Rupert Murdoch family
and all of this, but the, the ways
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:that money and wealth can impact your.
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:Moral compass.
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:And I think, this movie, the Mountain
Head also similarly, it, it deals
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:with all of these tech founders who
are, the, the poorest of them is worth
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:$521 million and the wealthiest is
like 223 billion just because of their
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:investments and like the companies
they founded and what their value at.
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:But it's wild to see how out of touch.
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:They become with like actual human
dilemmas and, what they're willing
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:to sacrifice, or what they're
willing to overlook in a way, in
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:their own self-interest and, and in
what they dubbed to see as, as what
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:they deemed to be most important.
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:So, I don't know, I, you
don't have to watch the movie.
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:It was actually.
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:Some people might like it.
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:It was one of those movies that
I had to grip my teeth, but I
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:wanted to get through 'cause it,
they're, they're not good people.
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:And the, the premise is there's
this guy that is founded, uh,
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:like a social media platform.
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:He releases all of these super well
advanced AI tools and it turns out they
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:allow for the pro, the easy production
of very believable, deep fakes that,
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:People can't, can't tell if it's true or
not, or they can't tell that it's fake.
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:So they, you know, then there's, you
know, Syrians who are being cast in a
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:light of, you know, or warring tribes,
they suddenly are looking at videos of
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:their enemies doing awful things to them
or their people, and it looks so real
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:that it's like inciting riots and wars
and assassinations and, and they're like.
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:It's okay.
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:Like this is part of like the, this
is just the collateral damage of
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:a tool that is so progressive and
everyone, you know, is frustrated with
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:something at first, but then you get
through this moment and then they're
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:like, this is the coolest thing ever.
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:You know, it, it, it, it, it
portrayed a very believable
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:arc, um, of character that.
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:Unfortunate.
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:And I think, you know, I worry
that, is that something that people
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:with extreme wealth actually do?
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:Sometimes that's how they
show up as like, I don't know.
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:I, I would encourage people to
watch it, even if it's just outta
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:curiosity because it does make you.
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:Want to be careful about the things and
the ways that money can, extreme wealth
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:can influence decision making of the
people that you know are in that position.
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:Um, so anyway, I, I kind of went off
on a real tangent there, but, you know,
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:in speaking about role models, I guess,
and how, you know, the people that we
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:look to and the people that are spoken
about and talked about and, and trying
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:to be really careful to understand.
363
:Uh, in stay informed as to what they're
doing and why they might be doing things.
364
:And like, to your point,
money doesn't necessarily mean
365
:that person is a good person.
366
:Irene Uy: Yeah, I'm, I'm not to, simplify
things into good and bad 'cause it's,
367
:uh, it's more complicated than that.
368
:But I, I do get your point.
369
:it, it reminds me, I'm gonna ask my mom,
but, when I was in high school, You know,
370
:like you are in this life stage where
you're learning a lot, so you're more
371
:confident in the way that you speak.
372
:And, uh, there have been times when
I have made my mom feel pretty dumb
373
:and she slapped me in the face because
she basically, she said that, what
374
:is the point of you being smart if
you don't have the right values?
375
:Right?
376
:Mm-hmm.
377
:And I, I'm not, I'm not like.
378
:Um, sharing this to out my mom, but I,
I, in that moment, I felt like I deserved
379
:it because, looking back, those were
my critical development stages, right?
380
:Like, these are the times where I learn
what my values are, what good and bad
381
:is, and, it starts there if you have the
right values, or if you develop the right
382
:values at that age, then, How do you think
that would compound, later on in life?
383
:What do you actually value if, you value,
performance and doing whatever it takes
384
:at the expense of your relationships?
385
:How do you think that's gonna compound
into, an adult later on in life?
386
:so.
387
:Yeah.
388
:Which is why like, you know, I, I was
listening to our previous episodes
389
:and how, the, the time and energy
that you put into really, teaching
390
:your daughters to write values at, at
this young age, it's, it's this time.
391
:Because if, if you lose, this
time and this relationship at
392
:this stage in their lives, what
kind of, next generation are we?
393
:Mm-hmm.
394
:Teaching, you know?
395
:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Mm-hmm.
396
:Yeah.
397
:And you know, I thank you for
sharing that story, by the way.
398
:And I kind of like, I kind of love,
like, even though in this, you know,
399
:gentle parenting, this is phase
of, of how, how people are raised,
400
:it's, doesn't necessarily fit.
401
:But I think that the.
402
:I really respect that checking mechanism
of like, hey, and you even said like,
403
:you probably may be, might have deserved
it, or you kind of felt like that.
404
:Like there's, there's, there's
this element of like, there need
405
:to be some checks and there needs,
someone needs to call people out.
406
:And as parents, I think one of the ways
we can do that, especially, you know, with
407
:the media and how much our kids consume.
408
:Outside of what we see, like I know that,
you know, my daughters and all their
409
:friends have Snapchat and TikTok, and I'm
just, I'm not, I, I have no deep insight
410
:into everything that they're exposed to,
but when it does come up or when I choose
411
:to bring it up, like I can speak to.
412
:The things, the people that I know
are on their radar and almost like
413
:media literacy where you, you question
like, what do you think of this?
414
:How do we know that to be true?
415
:What, what might make it not so true?
416
:And you know, what, is this good or bad?
417
:And if this is bad, what can we
do to, to try and change, change
418
:this course of action or try to try
and hold this person accountable?
419
:I think.
420
:That's something I'm trying to lean
into more because I, you know, it's,
421
:it's not always priority, right?
422
:When you're just trying to make
dinner or just trying to, you know,
423
:pay the bills or get line things up.
424
:But as the opportunities arise, I'm gonna
try, I'm trying to be more conscious
425
:of like encouraging them to question
and not take things at face value.
426
:And if they see something that's
not functioning in a way that seems.
427
:Totally like on the up and up or,
or evolving in a respectful and pla
428
:coming from a place of integrity,
like is there something that we
429
:can do to help course correct?
430
:You know, the, the thing that's coming
to mind right now is all these, uh,
431
:demonstrations and peaceful protests
in the United States, uh, about
432
:things that are coming up, since this
administration came into office, and you
433
:know that's an opportunity to kind of.
434
:Show an exhibit that you are
trying to hold people accountable.
435
:or even just talking about the fact
that people are showing up and debating
436
:that, and, you know, dissecting that
with your kids is important too.
437
:Like how, what are the ways
that we can show dissent in a
438
:productive and peaceful manner?
439
:Because, yeah, going, I think we touched
on this in the previous episode, but if
440
:we, if we don't speak up, our silence
is, agreement and, and so being able
441
:to look at our, the people that either,
our kids have as role models or society
442
:is elevating and speaking out when
things don't quite jive is, is like.
443
:It's almost like positive
and negative thinking.
444
:Like, you know how our brains tend
towards negativity, so we have to actively
445
:feed it positivity, like a pizza oven.
446
:We gotta like shove in
these positive thoughts.
447
:I think it's that way too
with what we see in the media.
448
:Like it's not enough just to think that
our, we are exposed or our kids are
449
:gonna be exposed to balanced information.
450
:We have to identify the things that
are meaningful to us to speak out about
451
:and kind of offset that intentionally.
452
:And, you know, with some effort just
to counterbalance these messages
453
:about, society and people that may
not be what we want them to believe.
454
:Like, not all rich people are bad
and money isn't bad, you know.
455
:When they see Elon Musk being, making
bad choices and being whatever, like, is
456
:that, are they starting to internalize
that message of like, well, rich
457
:people are jerks and I don't wanna be
rich 'cause I don't wanna be a jerk.
458
:Like, you know, we need to actively
find alternatives like Warren Buffett
459
:or you know, Mackenzie Scott to sort
of, it's illustrate to them that money
460
:in itself is not the problem anyway.
461
:Irene Uy: Mm-hmm.
462
:I'm actually conflicted
about the speaking out part.
463
:I don't necessarily agree that,
silence means you are complicit.
464
:because there, it's just
the nature of power, right?
465
:Like, it's, it's much more
complicated than that.
466
:speaking out might, and it
depends on how you speak out.
467
:Also, it might put, I think that's huge.
468
:Yeah.
469
:It might put the other
person into, defensive mode.
470
:What I am curious about, is the, the
sense of there seems to be a recurring
471
:theme of like our fear of power, right?
472
:Because when people use power to.
473
:Advance their self interests
at the expense of other people,
474
:then we feel uncomfortable.
475
:We, we come to terms with, the reality
of how dangerous the world can be
476
:of how there can be bad actors.
477
:And so there, the leaders that I
really look up to are people who,
478
:Understand the landscape, and know
how to strategize around the landscape
479
:and still choose to do good, right?
480
:Because that's really someone with
high integrity because they can
481
:be, at the people who, who can
win the game and still choose to,
482
:do good for the public.
483
:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Hmm.
484
:And I think even.
485
:Choosing to shine the light on
those people is an act of, can be an
486
:act of quote unquote speaking out.
487
:You know, it doesn't necessarily
have to be, a conflict with the
488
:things you don't believe in.
489
:It can be focusing and, you
know, elevating and admiring
490
:the things you do believe in.
491
:And I, because I, you know, I think
that like, as an example, just as a
492
:very like A micro example, but one
of my neighbors, he will go out maybe
493
:every two months and with a trash bag
and just pick up trash off the street
494
:just to keep the street looking pretty.
495
:And it's not just his yard.
496
:He does it up and down the
whole block on both sides.
497
:And that's something that I always try to
point out to the girls and they've done
498
:it sometimes too, just to kind of like
be part of that beautification movement.
499
:But you know, so, so.
500
:Admiring and complimenting, or, you
know, giving positive praise and and
501
:attention to what you think is working
is just as important, if not more
502
:important than like pointing at the
person who litters and saying, that
503
:sucks and you're a terrible person.
504
:So, to me, taking action maybe
is, is kind of my, my mentality.
505
:Like it's not a, I can't just look at.
506
:I can't just watch someone litter
or let my daughter see someone
507
:litter and not say something.
508
:Doesn't necessarily mean I'm not
gonna, I'm gonna say something to
509
:that person, but they need to know
that the behavior I see, I don't
510
:think is acceptable and here's why.
511
:And then they also need to
know, here's what you can do.
512
:That is actually kind of on the
opposite end of the spectrum
513
:and why I think it's good.
514
:You know what I mean?
515
:Mm-hmm.
516
:Yeah.
517
:Irene Uy: Yeah.
518
:One thing that I actually wanted to
point out, with what you just shared
519
:is like, I think the difference
between the leaders that I admire at
520
:least and the leaders that, I don't
necessarily, want to look up to as role
521
:models is this sense of, connection.
522
:and I've mentioned this book before,
the Rethinking Narcissism by Dr.
523
:Craig Malkin.
524
:There's healthy narcissism and
there's, you know, narcissism
525
:as, in the negative sense.
526
:Mm-hmm.
527
:the difference with healthy
narcissism and those, the, the,
528
:the ones that lean unhealthy are,
529
:when you look at a leader and you look at.
530
:Them, like, they're very,
they're very high up.
531
:You put them on a pedestal, you lose
that sense of connection, right?
532
:Because like, you're just,
you're just worshiping them.
533
:But the kind of leaders that
you have connection with,
534
:it's a symbiotic relationship.
535
:you're not putting them on a pedestal.
536
:You're in fact holding them.
537
:Accountable still.
538
:So think of it like, I think of this
as, like I, I recognize the human
539
:behind the, office that this leader
represents, and I will hold this
540
:person who is prone to error to the
standards of the office that they hold.
541
:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Hmm.
542
:And in, if.
543
:I mean, just to help the listeners and
me understand a bit the, are you speaking
544
:specifically to like political office
or are you thinking just generally like,
545
:Irene Uy: Uh, just generally, so if I were
to, because it when you think of a leader
546
:or a role model, you tend to attribute
like positive, characteristics to them.
547
:Almost like they cannot be
at fault, but they can be.
548
:And as people who are giving
them the power and the voice,
549
:because we are admiring them from.
550
:Below here.
551
:That's one way I hold, the leaders
that I look up to accountable, right?
552
:Mm-hmm.
553
:and I'm not wearing like these goggles
of like, admiration, but I can see them
554
:for who, who they are and how I, want
them to be because I respect them for
555
:certain qualities or characteristics.
556
:And, and if they don't fit that
bill, then, then they don't.
557
:I, I can see that too.
558
:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Hmm.
559
:I love that.
560
:Yeah.
561
:I, I think, if there was like a,
if something that you wanted to
562
:leave with the audience, I feel
like that might be part of it.
563
:Why don't you share kind of
what you'd like other people
564
:to take away from this episode?
565
:Irene Uy: I think exactly that,
that, you know, leaders, you can
566
:hold your leaders accountable.
567
:Like they don't necessarily have to live
up there on a pedestal because there is
568
:a difference between the person behind,
who you admire and the office or, or,
569
:or the idea that you hold of them.
570
:Carmelita (Cat) Tiu: Hmm.
571
:That's a really empowering
statement, I think.
572
:'cause like you said, I think maybe
sometimes people think folks are
573
:untouchable at a certain point.
574
:But yes, holding them accountable
and remembering they're human.
575
:That's really, really impactful.
576
:Irene Uy: Thanks for
listening to The Coach Is In.
577
:If something from today's episode
made you stop and think or even
578
:roll your eyes, don't worry.
579
:That's part of the process.
580
:If you're curious to hear more, hit
follow, leave a review or share this
581
:episode with someone who gets it.
582
:Remember, we're not promising
perfect answers, but every small
583
:shift can make a big difference.
584
:Until next time, take care of yourself.
585
:The Coach Is In, and
this space is for you.
