Dealing with Perfectionism and Parenting

Irene Uy: 00:00:03

Welcome to The Coach's Inn, the podcast for parent leaders who are

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juggling work, family, and life, and

wondering if there's actually a way

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to do it all without falling apart.

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I'm Kat, a coach, lawyer, and mom who's

been there, navigating the tightrope of

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leadership at home and work and figuring

out what is actually worth the energy.

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And I'm Irene, a leadership coach

on a mission to bridge generational

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gaps and bring fresh perspectives to

the challenges parent leaders face.

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If you're skeptical that balance, calm, or

boundaries are even possible, we get it.

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We're not here for quick

fixes or empty advice.

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We're here to have honest conversations,

share practical tools, and maybe

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even help you see things differently.

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Because the coach is in,

and this space is for you.

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Welcome everyone!

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Today I'm super excited to talk about

our topic, because we're talking about

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something so many moms struggle with.

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Perfectionism in parenting.

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We set impossibly high standards

for ourselves, but what if

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good enough is actually better?

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My co host Kat is going to share

her own journey as a perfectionist

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parent, and what's helped her Get

let go of unrealistic expectations.

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So welcome, Kat.

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Let's start with the basics.

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How do you define

perfectionism in parenting?

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What does that look like in real life?

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I think we all have a sense, especially

if you're high achieving type A women

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like we are we all have a sense for

how, how perfectionism looks on a

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day to day basis as an individual.

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And when you become a parent, and

certainly when I became a mom,

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it really started to manifest by

extending those tendencies towards

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how I wanted to show up for my kids.

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And how I thought my kids

should show up for the world.

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So for instance, if I thought like,

this is what it says about how much I

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should be feeding them, then it created

this sort of outsized anxiety on the

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days when I, they weren't within that

range of what's supposed to happen.

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Or, You know, maybe there's that first

grade party and the whole class is going

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to be there and their parents are going

to be there too and you want it to be

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just so like everything matching or

cupcakes have to be this, this and this

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and so and so is not having a good time.

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What do I do?

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You know, so I think it was

interesting to feel like.

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Exponentially, my anxiety or my stress

around, you know, and, and the way

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perfectionism manifested it just showed

up in tenfold when, when kids came into

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the picture for me, it was like, suddenly,

it wasn't just me that had to be perfect.

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It was my kids.

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Kids.

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And it was the way that we acted

around each other and the way people

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observed us, et cetera, et cetera.

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So yeah, like there's just so many

things that I think at every stage

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of child development, parents are

told things should, should be,

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how, how they should be, right?

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Like kids should sleep this amount.

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This should be your bedtime routine.

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Screen time should be limited to this.

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Food should be X, Y, and Z.

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And so whenever you.

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I started to feel just guilty about

everything and like I was failing

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at everything anytime that I wasn't

achieving those, those, those

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goals that I had set for myself.

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The standards, right?

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Yeah, I'm not in my head.

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I'm not a parent, but I'm not in

my head because I could totally see

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it like I could totally see moms

feeling the same way that you do.

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And it extends not just from your

personal experience, but now that

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you're a parent yourself, you wear so

many hats and suddenly the expectations

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of being perfect is increased.

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Yeah.

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Multiplied a million fold.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Completely.

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And then frustrated all the

time and dissatisfied with life.

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And that, Oh, I, yeah, it's,

it's not a good place to be.

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No one wants to live

feeling like, is this it?

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Like I wanted a child.

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I want it to be a mother.

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I want it to be married,

et cetera, et cetera.

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And then you are there and you're asking

yourself, is this, Is this all there is?

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It's a really, really

uncomfortable and frustrating

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and just not a great headspace.

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Let's explore that.

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I'm really curious where these

high expectations came from.

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Like, you know, like you put a

lot of pressure on yourselves.

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Where, when, can you identify when

it started showing up or where

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these expectations came from?

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You know, that, that is the

question that I encourage every

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parent to be asking themselves.

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I definitely fell into this kind

of trap or rhythm of doing what

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I thought I was supposed to do

without really thinking about.

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Is this right for me and where

is this should coming from?

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It's, it's just easy to fall into that

trap when you're just trying to get

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enough sleep and you're just trying to

get your kids to, you know, hit their

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marks and be ready for school, et cetera.

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So it's, it can be hard to kind of

pause and reflect and give yourself

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the time to dig deep into that question

of where are these coming from?

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I I'm going to tangent a little bit, but

there's this there's this thought process

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that I stumbled upon at some point when my

girls were little, but it's the five wise.

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It's accredited to I think he was a

business strategist or a corporate

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executive at a Japanese company to,

I'm going to, to Ichi Ono, but he,

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He encouraged people, like, don't

just ask why, but ask why five times.

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So the machine broke.

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Why did it break?

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It was overloaded.

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Why was it overloaded?

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Because the shipments arrived late.

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Why did the shipments arrive late?

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You know, the trucking company wasn't

notified soon enough that they had to.

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So really digging deep.

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Because it's not enough just to

address the initial response.

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So when you're asking, where do

these expectations come from?

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It can, the answer might not be

as readily available as you think.

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Like I might think, Oh, where

did this expectation come from?

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A friend, she suggested this.

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Well, why did the friend suggest this?

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She saw it on Pinterest.

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Okay.

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Is Pinterest the source

of everything true?

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You know, so kind of digging a little

deeper to see like, is this really

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true for me and do I really want this

to be the source of my standards?

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I found that parenting and social

media can be a blessing and a curse.

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I find tons of great tips out there, like

little tiny hacks, little scripts that I

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can use to communicate with my kids more

effectively, but you also these ideas.

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On, Oh, you know, perfect Valentine's

day morning for your daughters, or

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here's the lunch that you can pack.

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And it's this bento box with

14 different bite sized goodies

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that are all organic and healthy.

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So there's, you definitely take

things with a grain of salt.

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I also personally felt like my, everyone,

I guess, but I saw it show up a lot for

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me, my parents, Had a certain relationship

and I absorbed what they valued and

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what they prioritized as what I should

value and prioritize without initially

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giving a lot of thought into whether

my circumstances allowed for that.

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So my mom was a stay at home mom.

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My dad was the primary.

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Only Breadwinner, and I remember her.

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She did all the craft sessions before, you

know, school plays and Halloween costumes.

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She volunteered a ton.

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She drove us everywhere.

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She made every dinner.

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So that was my idea of what

it meant to be a good mom.

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I didn't have any models for a

working mom, which is what I was.

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So I was trying to conflate the two

and it, it led to disaster, like

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so much frustration, so much guilt.

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And so being mindful of how do my

parental, how to, how, how did the

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experiences I had as a child inform

how I'm showing up as a parent?

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And then you know, I think.

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Being still can help you navigate

all of these different things.

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You know, I would encourage everyone

to just pause, take a few deep breaths

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when you're feeling that frustration

and ask those, ask yourself, where

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are these expectations coming from?

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And do I want to make these my standard?

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I love that.

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So, so basically this is an invitation

to pause and be mindful because I don't

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think that Parent leaders who are very

busy, who have a lot of responsibilities

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and expectations from themselves and

the people around them take the time

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to really sit down and figure out

what actually is important, right?

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So there goes the importance of

mindfulness here because you're basically

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assessing what is important to you

versus what's just being fed to you.

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I all, I believe that, you know,

all advice is good advice, but

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is it right for you right now?

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Yes, yes.

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Intentionality is the word that comes

to mind with what you just said.

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Like we, anyone can show up in

the rhythm of what they're expect,

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expected to do and taking that

additional step of mindfulness.

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It's redefines everything.

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It can either make what you're

doing much more fulfilling, or it

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can make you realize that I, this

is not what's serving me and I'm,

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I want to choose something else.

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So I think that mindfulness

is key to having an intention,

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a life lived with intention.

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So, so Kat, how did you start letting go

of perfectionism once you've identified

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you know, that these are the influences

shaping your expectations for yourself?

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Yeah, I think you know, I just want

to share kind of a moment That led to

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this realization, this is, you know,

that, that you're kind of talking about,

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but I noticed that my perfectionist

tendencies were starting to show up in

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my daughters a little bit, especially

my older one, because I think birth

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order, et cetera, that can have an

impact on how younger kids show up, but

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my older daughter, when she was little,

maybe two or three was really starting

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to exhibit risk averse tendencies.

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Where, like, she didn't want

to do something unless she

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knew she could do it well.

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Or she didn't want to try

something new because she was

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afraid she was going to mess up.

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Or it wouldn't be good enough.

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And that really, I'm not sure

that it was only me contributing

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to that, but it definitely made

me think, what am I modeling, you

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know, and how is that impacting my

kids and do I want that for them?

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So I think, you know, that mindset

mindset shift of, you know, what

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am I modeling here can really help.

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Us be more kind to ourselves,

take that moment of mindfulness

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and live more intentionally.

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Without it, we might get caught up in

that, like continuing to just hustle

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and, you know, check off all the boxes.

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But for me really thinking about,

Oh, how is this impacting the

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people that I love and care about?

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And, and not just myself anymore.

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How is this really impacting who

I'm creating and these little

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humans that I'm hoping will become?

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you know, amazing, impactful

beings at some point.

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So that, that for me was a

really important mindset shift.

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That's a very powerful insight that you

had there because on the one hand, I know

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that pair a parent's responsibility really

is to keep their children safe, right?

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But as they grow older they're

Independence is also growing and

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you kind of want to nurture that.

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And you know, if you want them to take

risks and be confident in the future,

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you kind of have to let the safety takes

a backseat into, you know, Oh, you can

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do this and you can, you can take risks.

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It reminds me of a, a story I heard of

Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx.

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And I remember her, she was being

interviewed, I think it might've been

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on Oprah, but she was asked like,

what were some of the contributing

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influences and what made you think

you could do this starting off by

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cutting the feet off pantyhose and

going door to door and trying to get

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people to help you make your product.

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And she said that when she was growing

up and they'd come home from high school,

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her dad would ask, how did you fail today?

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And what did you learn from it?

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So really celebrating this idea of you

should be failing and because failure

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is what gets you to the learning

and to where you want to be, and

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don't just stay in your safe zone.

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I have not started asking my

kids, how did you fail today?

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But I do think that story has

helped me think about failure

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and, and kind of rewarding it and

not focusing on the bad feelings

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around failure, but thinking about.

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Well, how did we learn from this?

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What did you learn from this?

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What do you, what will you do differently

next time when I'm talking to my kids?

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So that it's, it's less about, oh,

failure is bad and more about failure

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is actually a learning experience.

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That's really good.

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That seems to be the antidote

to perfectionism, like

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embracing your failures.

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So if, if perfectionism isn't

the goal what type of parenting

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should do we strive for instead?

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How do you personally embrace it?

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Yeah.

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It's.

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There's this term of

the good enough parent.

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I think someone wrote a book

and I apologize to the author.

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I don't remember the name

exactly, but like the good

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enough mom or good enough mother.

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But I really do think embracing

that concept of good enough is,

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you know, do that for the win.

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It really does get you across kind of

that finish line because if that's the

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standard, then you're thinking not about.

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perfection, you're thinking about,

like, am I hitting what's necessary?

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Am I doing, am I, am I making sure that

what needs to get done gets done versus

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what I want to get done or what other

people think I should get done gets done?

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It reminds me of, so you know, you

know this Irene, but I have worked

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at an advertising, advertising and

creative agency for, I don't know,

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10, 12 years as legal counsel.

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But one thing I really appreciate

about that space is they are very much.

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Design thinking strategy minded fail fast,

use these sprints to figure out what you

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need and if, and what's not working, and

then you just iterate, iterate, iterate.

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There is no fixed state of perfection.

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Everything is constantly

changing and your needs change.

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There's a term that's used called

MVP, which is most minimum viable.

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Product or minimum by

a viable proposition.

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I love that because it, it totally

reframed success as what's the least

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amount you can do to get the job done.

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And that becomes your goal.

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So in parenting, I think leaning

into some of these business concepts

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of what's the minimum that needs to

get done and treat that as success.

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And then anything above and beyond

that can be added if you want.

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It's optional.

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It's good.

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You know, if, if it brings you joy and you

have time for it, great, but good enough,

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the minimum viable product is, is the win.

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So that for me has been a big kind

of tool that I've used to help get

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past perfectionism when parenting.

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It's like, is the Halloween costume,

you know, going to be on Martha Stewart?

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No, but does it?

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Make my kid look like

a minion for the day.

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Yeah, I guess what you're saying is

like, it's not so much the details.

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It's like, oh, the dinner was messy.

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The costume wasn't perfect, but it's

more of did you create core memories

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that you are going to take with you when

they get older, like the big picture

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as opposed to like, oh, these tiny

minute details that don't really move

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the needle forward in the long run.

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Yeah.

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And I think knowing what your values

are, and I, I would guess that with

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every parent, we have those values

of, we want our kids to feel safe.

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We want them to feel loved.

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And we hopefully don't

scar them in the process.

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Like you were just trying to

show up the best way we can.

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So remembering like, okay, do

they need, golden sprinkles

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in order to make that happen?

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Maybe not.

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So really thinking about how good

enough and is about like, what is that

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minimum thing you want to deliver?

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And, and are you delivering it with sort

of this, this minimum viable product?

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So for a mom listening right now who

recognizes her perfectionist tendencies,

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but doesn't know how to let go,

what's one step she can take today?

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Hmm, that's a good question.

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I think

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of a quote that was shared with me.

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When I was in high school that when

my perfectionist tendencies really

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started to come to the forefront is

strive for excellence, not perfection.

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And I think that for me, I felt

this huge weight when I first heard

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that, like, right, I don't need

to get a hundred like what, what

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does excellence look like for me?

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And, and is that make that okay.

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Make that enough.

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I think.

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allowing for that and pausing

and noticing, like, how am

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I feeling in this moment?

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And where is this coming from?

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That, that might be kind of the, the,

the low hanging fruit, if you will.

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Like if there's absolutely one thing to

do that you're stressed about is just to

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pause and say, where is this coming from?

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And then, Is this serving me at the, the,

the idea of things being of service to

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you or not, I think is kind of big in

the, in the personal development space.

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But in essence, it's how is this

helping me become a better person.

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And if you're noticing that.

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You're feeling extra anxiety around

like there's crumbs on the car seat

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and some of your, you're giving your

carpooling and the other kids are going

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to see them and you're super stressing

out about it because the perfectionist

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you wants the car to be pristine.

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Then You know, ask yourself, where

does that standard of super clean

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car for all these kids come from?

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And my guess is nine times out of

ten, the other parents cars also have

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crumbs, if not more, you know, littering

the floor and seats of their cars.

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But where is this coming from?

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And does being anxious about a few

crumbs make you a better person?

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And if it's not serving you, let it go.

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You have permission from me

and the universe to let it go.

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So that, that's kind of what I would

encourage moms to do is pause, question,

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and then release if it's not serving you.

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I love that.

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So for the audience, we are in the

space of self awareness right now.

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And this, if you're new to the

self development journey, this is

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probably a very good place to start.

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: 00:20:13

And what Kat mentioned about listening to

your body is a very tangible, clear signal

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because most of us don't pay attention

to what our bodies are telling us.

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: 00:20:22

And so if, if you wanted to start

somewhere, it would be to pay attention

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to what your body is telling you.

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Yeah, that would be our entry point to

your journey because it's a journey.

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And we're happy that you're here

to join us for this journey.

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So final thoughts, Kat, if you

could leave moms with just one

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message about perfectionism in

parenting, what would it be?

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Oh I'm gonna share another quote that I

love that I, I know is on social media

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quite a bit, but it, it bears repeating.

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Your kids don't need a perfect mother.

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They need a happy one.

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So let me repeat that 'cause I

think a lot of people forget.

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That's how we show up is important.

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Your kids don't need a perfect mother.

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They need a happy one.

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Happy and messy is way better

than frustrated, angry,

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sad, and everything's clean.

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Outfits are pressed, organic food,

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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So keep that in mind.

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And you know, being happy, being present,

loving, and real is what your kids need.

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I love that.

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I had like two different

reactions to that.

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One is like, yes, because it's kind

of like, you have to put on your mask

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first before helping others, right?

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And that's the mentality that

you're trying to encourage.

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: 00:21:44

And on the other hand, I'm also

addressing the skeptics who might not

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necessarily embrace this idea right now.

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I want to say that it's normal

to reject the idea, but the more

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: 00:21:57

that you explore into it, the

more that you'll be open to it.

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So, you know, just.

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Pay attention to where you're what your

thoughts are because it's a process

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and rejecting the idea as part of it.

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: 00:22:08

Love that.

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: 00:22:09

Love today's episode.

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: 00:22:10

So if I could just summarize everything

that we've covered today, which is like

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packed with insights and awareness.

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: 00:22:16

And hopefully this was a

helpful episode for everyone.

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I just so just for me cap, like I guess

the first and foremost step would be to

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find the source of your expectations,

really dig deep in there and understand

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whether it's really coming from you or

it's societal expectations that might not

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necessarily be aligned with your values.

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: 00:22:37

Right?

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: 00:22:38

And then the second thing that Cat

really emphasized was embracing the

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idea of good enough, because good

enough is better than being perfect.

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: 00:22:47

And lastly, it's remembering what you're

modeling for your kids, because a happy

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mom is Better than a perfect mother.

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: 00:23:06

So thank you for listening to the

coaches in, if something from today's

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episode made you stop and think, or

even roll your eyes, don't worry.

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: 00:23:15

That's part of the process.

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: 00:23:17

If you're curious to hear more hit,

follow, leave a review, or share this

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: 00:23:21

episode with someone who gets it.

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: 00:23:23

Remember, we're not promising

perfect answers, but every small

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shift can make a big difference.

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: 00:23:31

Until next time, take care of yourself.

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: 00:23:33

The coaches in, and this space is for you.